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no name vs Androz
Topic Started: Jan 13 2013, 09:54 PM (1,144 Views)
Hurry My Curry
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Master Troll

Remember everyone this is only for Androz and no name. I have mods strictly enforcing this rule.

Good Luck!
Miles for mod
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no name
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You forgot to write the topic title,,which is EOZ gains.Whatever.HAAAA(powering up to max,my debating chi is surfaced,the spectators are amazed
at the amount of chi etc)I'm beginning...

EOZ Goku says there's someone besides Saiyans or Buu who can win the Tenkaichi.This means non enraged Ubb is at least at Fat Buu's tier.Then,
when Ubb gets mad,he further powers up.A heavy implication that he's most likely equal to Kid Buu.Therefore,Base EOZ Goku is definitely close or
equal to his Buu Saga SSJ3 self.I have him slightly weaker than that,since he really felt Ubb's kick on his arm.Having his potential unlocked would be
out of his character.So,we have to assume he got that much stronger by training.An explanation i've thought of is that during that decade Goku's
body was at the best age,during which strength was increasing faster than in any other period.Now,one can say ''but Goku was 28-38 during that
period and one's prime is at 20-30''.Well,since Saiyans live longer than humans,maybe their prime is also at a later age.
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Andro
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Now what do I do? xDDDDDD
Edited by Andro, Jan 14 2013, 03:36 PM.
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no name
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Bring up your arguments.If we disagree,the one to prove his point wins.If we agree,the one who supports it better wins.
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Andro
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It is SURE that Uub is as strong as Kid Buu. It was king Yemma who heard Goku's wish (sparring with kid buu some day), so why would he make Uub less strong than Kid Buu, or stronger. Meaning, that he is indeed as strong as kid Buu.
And non enraged, my view on Uub is that he is as strong as an earthling martial artist- saying that he is the strongest in his village means that, non enraged of course, he hasn't the strength of a normal earth child.
I dissagree.I don't think that normal form can be as strong as a super saiyan, more like, as strong as a ssj3. And it is certain that Goku hadn't been training his Super saiyan state through the 10 year period of training. And if Goku still wished to some day fight Buu's reincarnation he wouldn't over do it. He would want the fight to be close to equal for a great match. Hell, he had been waiting 10 years for this. And Goku could kind of sense Uub's power from far away, correct? So, with Goku having the ''power of sensing hidden power'', he could see Uub's power and train likewise to it. Cuz as I said he didn't want a quick easy match.
Also, Goku is at least 47 (worked it out) in the 28th Budokai. And, from what I know, saiyans don't live longer. They just stay in their prime for longer so as to fight even when they are very old.
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no name
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-So you agree that Ubb was equal to Kid Buu,but disagree that EOZ Base Goku was equal to his SSJ3 self.Then,how do you explain they fought
evenly?
-Physically,Goku wasn't 47 at 28th,since,the years he was dead,he wasn't ageing.
-Ok,let's say Saiyans don't live longer,but just stay at their prime for longer.Still,maybe the prime of a Saiyan's body begins after 30s,there is still room
left for it to last more than human's prime.I still don't see why we can't use it as a good explanation to Goku gaining that much power during the
Buu Saga/EOZ decade.
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Andro
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-Uub being as strong Kid Buu doesn't mean that he fights like Kid Buu, even when enraged. Kid Buu's sole purpose was to fight and destroy and with a pure evil heart. He never gets actually mad, he is always mad in his heart. Uub however gets mad and reveals the strength of the power that he has the ability to control so far. He has far more power hidden in him than what he showed when he got mad. Goku even said:''Wow youre strong, I'm impressed! But you don't really seem to be able to control you power very well.''
- Also, a Saiyan''s prime isn't later in age as to that of a human's, it's just there for longer.
-It's sure Saiyans don't live especially longer than humans. Toriyama says that he didn't want to preview Goku as an old man in the final scenes so he came up with giving a longer prime for Saiyans.
Being old means that you are close to death of course, so the same thing with Goku would happen.
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no name
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-So,where do you place Base Goku a EOZ?
-What i said about Saiyans' prime beginning later isn't a fact,it's just an assumption of mine trying to logically explain Goku's gains during that decade.
At least,i gave one logical explanation,unlike you.But,since you disagree with Base EOZ Goku=SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku,forget about that thing about
Saiyan's prime.We'll come to that later.

So,this is what we have,so far...
I stated that EOZ Base Goku=SSJ3 Goku and gave a logical explanation for that.Now,for you to win this debate,you have to either disprove my view
about EOZ Base=Buu Saga SSJ3 or accept it and find another logical explanation about the gains,which will make more sense than mine.But,first of
all,tell me how strong you have EOZ Base Goku.
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Andro
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Well, I guess I would put base Goku as strong as base Gotenks.

-About the prime beginning later is not a fact indeed. It is an assumption of yours, though a very wrong one IMO. What is true is what I said. Prime stays longer to the Saiyan's life!
Vegeta even says: ''We Saiyans live through battle, we keep our youth/prime for longer so as to fight for longer.''
If I am wrong, please give me a piece of proof to dissprove my opinion. I doubt there are any.
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Alex D. Boss
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Sorry for jumping in guys!

Andro wanted a proof , so I'll give it to him. ( fact checker)

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.5
Context: Bulma complains about how Saiyans never age
Vegeta: “We Saiyans are a fighting race. In order to fight, our youthful period is long.”

Here is your proof Andro.
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+ Pyrus
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To clear things up with you guys about Saiyan aging, here is an entry from the SEG: Character Volume from AT.
Quote:
 
Saiyan aging
Next Toriyama is asked whether Saiyans are always young. As a fighting race they stay young for a long time in order to maintain their power, but Toriyama explains that their actual lifespan isn’t much different than Earthlings, and they quickly deteriorate after a certain age. Toriyama adds that Saiyan hair style still changes with age, and that Nappa went bald. Like with Earthlings, hair composition various from person to person.
Spoiler: click to toggle
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+ Kyouks
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I'll probably give this topic another day or so, and I'll get a mod to close this Wednesday evening or night (so around 7-9 PM, Central Time USA). Good luck with the time you've got left.
Posted Image
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no name
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Base Gotenks was stronger than SSJ2s.We can't use the kids' cockiness as a measure of that gap,because,if we go by that,he must be stronger than
Fat Buu's full power,which the kids had sensed against Vegeta.The only actual proof is Gotenks managing to escape Buu,as opposed to Vegeta.So,
Gotenks is only by a small margin stronger.Now,considering that SSJ Gotenks can't be hugely far from SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu is about the same as
the latter,Kid Buu is a little less than 50x Base Gotenks.
Enraged Ubb at the tournament has the same power as Kid Buu.His problem is that he can't use it well,not that he fights at some supression.But,if
there was such an enormous gap between Ubb and Base Goku,there is no way that the Saiyan would be able to keep up,even if Ubb didn't know
how to use his power well.The superior fighting skills cannot make up for such a difference.So,the only way is to put Goku around his SSJ3 Buu Saga
counterpart.
I know what i said about Saiyan's prime might as well not be true.I just followed the ''lack of proof is not proof of lack'' route and said there is a
possibility it is true to give a logical explanation.
All in all,i have both supported my point that Base EOZ=Buu Saga SSJ3 and given something to make it seem more logical.If you cannot either
disprove it or give something else,be it a fact or an assumption,that makes more sense than mine,i see no way how you can win this debate.
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Andro
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Uub has far, FAR more chi in him than what he shows when he fights Goku. He doesn't reveal or control his inner strength, and he can't convert it into physical strength.
In DB strength isn't physical. It's not like super man xD. They aren't ''geneticaly advanced in their muscles(well, they are a bit)''.
They convert their chi into physical strength. That's why when Goku eats or rests his power level is at least 500. Because his chi output is as low as 0%. But when he powers up/warms up his PL shoots up to x200 of that, in the least!
My point is Uub has got almost no control over his chi so as to convert his inner strength into power in battle. Meaning, he is much much stronger than what we see. Which also means that Goku is not so much as powerful as SSj3 against.
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Andro
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And look:
Training is RoSat for one year: Goku got 50x stronger from what he was. (USSJ Multiplier)
Training After Buu for ten years: Goku got 1000x stronger from what he was??? as you say Goku base became as strong as SSj3, correct? (SSJ3 Multiplier)

Ok, we simply multimply 50 x 10 (times the years of training) = 500x stronger than what he was if he trained in RoSat for 10 years.

PLUS, when he was training in RoSat he trained very fiercely every second, AND he was trying to find his way in a new level of transformation which would make him EVEN stronger than just training.
While, during the 10 year period I'm sure Goku didn't train so fiercely OR for so long each day, OR thinking up new ways to transform.

I doesn't add up if Goku got that much stronger. Plus, with what I said with Uub just on top it doesn't add up at all, not even close.
Edited by Andro, Jan 16 2013, 02:27 PM.
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